Not So Young But Angry Conservatives Unite

Getting sick of the progressively worse slant and obvious bias of the media? Got booted out of other sites for offending too many liberals? Make this your home. If you SPAM here, you're gone. Trolling? Gone. Insult other posters I agree with. Gone. Get the pic. Private sanctum, private rules. No Fairness Doctrine and PC wussiness tolerated here..... ECCLESIASTES 10:2- The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of a fool to the left.

Monday, September 12, 2005

Have You Forgotten?

OK, four years ago, on September 11, 2001, the United States suffered its deadliest terrorist attack, ever. It was also the worst loss of American lives on day, since Pearl Harbor, and before that, The Civil War battle of Antietam.

Many want to act like 9/11 never happened. That the heroes on Flight 93, were not really heroes. And many others want to think, demand that we agree that America got what it deserved.

Yeah, tell that to the families of NY Firefighters who died that day, 343 total.
Tell that to the families of the victims of Flight 93, 40 victims, 40 families.
And of course tell that to the families of the over 2,600 who died inside the WTC.

Never forgive, never forget.

And don't post here, unless you have something profound and good to say. All trolls will be deleted.....


  • At 11:34 AM, Blogger Kevin said…

    "Never forgive, never forget."

    Holy balls, if that doesn't sum up exactly why Christianity and our country have nothing in common...

  • At 4:45 PM, Blogger NDwalters said…

    Kevin, don't start on me today. Forgiveness is God's job, not mine. And yes the US and Christians have alot more in common than the jerkoffs you seem to be defending......

    Tell me you're defending those bastards and that you f-cking forgive them. Please, give me a reason to rage.

  • At 7:47 PM, Blogger Kevin said…

    Hmm. Well, I don't think I'm defending anyone per se.

    It was just a coincidence that I walked into a convienence store the other day and noticed them selling '9/11 - Never forget' emblems and such (at about $6.00 a pop I might add).

    It just made me think how silly the concept is to 'never forget'. I mean, it's true, history most likely won't forget it, but it will undoubtedly lose meaning over the years as all other tragedies have.

    The 'never forgive' part, however, was just a spin that made me think how much less sense the whole thing makes.

    The fact is, horrible things like that have occurred all around the globe since the beginning of man. I'd like to think they'll stop happening, but it's unlikely, and certainly not in our lives.

    Still, to -not forgive- is human, but to promote the concept of -it is BETTER not to forgive- is asinine.

    It promotes the same senseless garbage in the world that our would-be attackers have promoted to one another. In this case, to 'not forgive' us for what they suggest we have done wrong for decades.

    So again, I don't think that defends ANYONE at all, but rather just begs the question of why anyone would ever suggest that you should 'NEVER FORGIVE'.

    I just always find some irony in the fact that the right side of the political spectrum seems to hold two things: anger and religion. The left, of course, holding peace and godlessness.

    Weird, isn't it?

  • At 1:12 AM, Blogger Diana Kennedy said…

    Kevin, I don't think that things are as simple as that. I think I am rather left, but I am not godless (I even worship multiple Gods) and I actually know some atheists who are from the right wing.

    I say it straight out: I don't see why one should forgive Osama Bin Laden.
    I would not shed a single tear if someone splitted his skull with an axe.

    But of course, I am NO Christian and therefore not in a dilemma.

    A follower of Christ is asked to forgive. Jesus said clearly: Forgive and you will be forgiven by God. If you don't forgive, God will not forgive you your sins.

    A clear statement that the ever angry right wing Christians forget.

  • At 1:58 AM, Blogger Kevin said…

    Point well taken -- and for what it's worth, I should have specified much more as I meant to imply exactly what you wrote (at the end anyways).

    As per the splitting skulls with an axe, I guess it's just a personal thought process that we all must make.

    Granted, I have no religion suggesting that I grant forgiveness to such a person, much less anyone for that matter. But, can you not agree with me that the message is wrong?

    For a country to actively promote NON-Forgiveness against a person, extended of course by an entire religion, seems medieval to me at best.

    I mean, take it literally if you want. Obviously we have forgiven the Japanese for our losses at Pearl Harbor, and they for their losses with the atomic bombs. At some point in the future we will resolve this situation as any other in history. Should only then we bring back the concept of forgiveness?

  • At 8:53 AM, Blogger Diana Kennedy said…


    You are right of course. And I didn't want to say that PROMOTING unforgivness is right. I just statet that as a non-Christian I am not in a dilemma if I have personal feelings of unforgivness, all while if I were a Christian I should hard to try to forgive even Osama.

    If I am a Christian and don't even try doing so, I don't take my religion seriously.
    But if in the other hand, I even PROMOTE Unforgivness, that's not only spitting on Jesus but also supporting the vicious circle that nourishes ever-lasting hate.

    I also think that there is a difference between entire people and individuals. I doubt that a japanese atomic bomb victim forgives the bomber-guy, but he may forgive the Americans. And an American may forgive japanese for pearl harbour but not the japanese government who gave the order.

  • At 11:30 AM, Blogger Kevin said…

    hmm. interesting point at the end there -- but I have to believe that at SOME point in time ALL is forgiven.

    It would then seem to me that the forgiveness is based upon two things:
    1) How long ago the event occurred
    2) What atrocity took place

    For example, perhaps WWII is not yet old enough. I realized, however, that just age wouldn't suffice when considering slavery.

    But, I am pretty sure the British have given up being bitter about the Revolutionary War. I know thats kind of out there, but I mean, it was a war, and many lives were lost -- and there was a LOT of bitterness for a long while.

    I was just suggesting that perhaps not today, perhaps not in 50 years even, but at some point, the WTC event will be nothing more than an unfortunate blip in history.

  • At 12:50 PM, Blogger NDwalters said…

    Dang, see what happens when you're stuck at work.

  • At 2:50 PM, Blogger Diana Kennedy said…


    I think that the Forgiving because of "historization" takes place when an entire new generation lives, a generation that does not have known living elders wo talked about what they had to endure and therefore give the bitteress over.

    There are probably none of us here who lived in WW2 but we know /knew people who lived it and so we have a glimpse of their bitterness. But None of us know somebody who endured the civil war, or the French-German War of 1870 / 71, or the revolutionary war.

    The entire world has changed. There is no Nazi-Germany anymore, no British Empire that wants its american colonies back. So why should a living American be angry against a living British and vice-versa?

    For sure the phenomenon will happen with 9/11. When a next Generation learns about terrorism only from history books. Luckily, historization will come. But of course, forgiving earlier has much more strenght.

  • At 6:36 PM, Blogger Ranando said…

    All trolls will be deleted.

    Yep, your a Right-Winger.

    The Ranando Report

  • At 6:50 PM, Blogger chefwes said…

    This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  • At 7:04 PM, Blogger chefwes said…

    Unfortunately, diana, as an avowed multi-theist, you obviously haven't got a clue as to "what a follower of Christ is asked" A "follower of Christ" is asked not to forgive, but, instead is to ask "forgiveness" for their own personal shortfalls. See in "Christianity" which is where your "follower of Christ" comes from, it is taught that all men fall short of the glory of God, yet through Christ, his life, his sacrifices, we have "forgiveness". Now, while it is true that a "follower of Christ" has been instructed "Judge not lest ye be Judged" and "Revenge is mine, saith the Lord God of Hosts", and "turn the other cheek", it is also true that God Almighty has instructed the ancient Israelites to "arm themselves to the teeth" and stand against the attackers of their country. It is also true that Christ himself stated " I have not come to bring peace, but to turn brother against brother, father against son". Now, I wouldn't expect you to believe, nor understand this, as it is also stated in the Bible, about people such as yourself that " it is foolishness to them, for they can not understand things of the Spirit, being made flesh". In closing, let me simply state, until such a time as you have an actual working knowledge of any religion, you may wish to keep your comments about it to yourself, as you make yourself sound more foolish than you are.

  • At 7:16 PM, Blogger crallspace said…

    This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  • At 7:25 PM, Blogger chefwes said…

    You mean THIS intelligence? Read it and weep Bucko, you LOSE... again!

  • At 7:27 PM, Blogger chefwes said…

    Really libbypukes, you make this TOO easy, try actually informing yourself, you may actually grow a brain, although this is highly doubtful!

  • At 7:31 PM, Blogger chefwes said…

    or wait, maybe you're referring to the no WMD... you know, the WMD that the terrorists in Iraq were threatening yesterday to use against Tal Afar, or did you not read that? Or possibly you also didnt actually bother to read the Duelfer report, where he stated that he "couldn't deny the possibility" that the WMD's were shipped to Syria, the same line of thinking and logic that was used in the 9/11 reports and the Kay reports, see, no one can DENY it, they simply do not KNOW, therefore, stay up with me here, this is logic, something I know you do not possess, they can NOT rule out that they are out there.... try READING, fool!

  • At 10:33 PM, Blogger Kevin said…

    You Wrote:
    See, no one can DENY it, they simply do not KNOW, therefore, stay up with me here, this is logic, something I know you do not possess, they can NOT rule out that they are out there.... try READING, fool!

    That's actually the least clever thing that you wrote in 4 seperate posts Chef.

    I am suspecting that you have never studied logic. That's a loaded question if you missed it, because either way you answer, you lose.

    You can never logically deduce nor eliminate a possibility that doesn't exist. It's an infamous trait of logic that it's approaching impossibility to 'prove a not'. Reason being that it HAS NOT occurred. Therefore, what proof can you give to suggest that event X has NOT occurred.

    Using logic, in this case, is not the correct answer.

    I can't prove that I'm NOT going to die tomorrow, but general probability would suggest that I won't, and previous intelligence gathered from my life furthers this claim.

    The government has continually made poor choices on behalf of our country for 4 years this week. Next time you want to cite the government using logic to make a decision, study the subject matter first.


  • At 1:35 AM, Blogger Diana Kennedy said…

    Chefwes, I may inform you that I WAS a fundamental Christian years ago. I know the Bible obvuiously better than you.

    And there is statet "How many times shall you forgive?..."Do you remember this verse or have I look in my bible to quote the correct one?

    I of course know of all the hate that is promoted in the Bible, too.
    It is perfectly possible to back a genocide with the bible. That's one of the reasons I dropped that religion.

    But the bible is also full of contradictions.

    Jesus did at least up to 90% promote peace. This is why I expressively asked why a follower of Jesus igore those 80% and prerefer to follow the rest of the Bible.

  • At 4:58 AM, Blogger NDwalters said…

    Diana, Hitler knew the Bible and he was hardly a Christian or a theist. He claimed to be God. Also, remember this, an enemy will know your stuff inside and out, just not how to use it for good....

    Kevin, stop nitpicking at Wes. He makes good points and if all you guys have is spelling and typos, then there's nada left for you all to refute.

    Dan Crall, go troll elsewhere. Go back to DU or where you belong.

  • At 10:29 AM, Blogger Kevin said…

    ...actually, I was merely pointing out how he has attempted to 'break' others arguments over and over again by citing that their logic is incorrect.

    I was simply explaining to him why HIS logic was far from correct. Therefore his attempts to break others arguments by using that very incorrect logic, is suspect at best.

  • At 2:01 PM, Blogger chefwes said…

    unfortunately, Kevin, once again it is your "logic", if one could possibly call it that that is flawed. See. the premise is NOT "eliminate a possibility that doesn't exist", the premise is they were neither able to prove it, NOR disprove it. The fact is, they were TRYING to find out IF they were there, and if so, what happened to them, their inability to do so has been miscontrued by people of your ilk to mean they were not there. This a flawed assumption. your Logic professor would hang his head in shame at your pitful attempts at distortion.
    Diana, you "know the Bible obviously better" than I... interesting, I suppose you have spent years searching and researching the ancient manuscripts to see the truth therein?
    Or have you merely listened to what some man has taught you about HIS beliefs in it?
    Do you KNOW the multitude of meanings of LOVE, ranging from eros to phileo, to agapeo?
    The contradictions you speak of simply lie in your lack of understanding orfthe Bible, of God, of the administrations ( which verses were directed to which people, which laws of God were in effect at which time, there are 7 of them, look them up!) of man, translations, versions and the whole process of how the Bible, as we know it today was received by man.
    As for this verse you throw out "How many times shall you forgive?..." possibly you mean "Forgive and it shall be forgiven", which, is not a verse, but a portion of a verse. Other than that, I have no clue as to what you mean, not where you're trying to take this. Forgiveness is wonderful, its what God does to man and what man should do to others. However, God also tells man to obey the laws of man, and there ARE HUMAN consequences for failing to abide by the law. such as Jail, the Death penalty, imprisonment, etc etc etc... so, go ahead and make your point, as irrelevant as it may be tot he whole discussion, for forgiveness has nothing to do with Justice!
    PS, it's always so amusing to see a liberal talk about the "hatred of the right" when they know, deep in their heart of hearts, they are the ones harboring all the hatred, towards the very self same people they accuse of hatred!

  • At 6:49 PM, Blogger chefwes said…

    Ok... I realize this was posted before our latest "civil" conversatin on another thread... but, I simply can not resist. Kevin... you state "That's actually the least clever thing that you wrote in 4 seperate posts Chef.

    I am suspecting that you have never studied logic. That's a loaded question if you missed it, because either way you answer, you lose."
    FIRST off, it is "SEPARATE", (See, 2 can play THAT game!)
    Secondly, you say that "That's a loaded question"
    Where is the question in that statement? If there is no question, simply a statement, followed by another statement, how can it be a "question", when no question is asked????
    That being said, how can you state that it is a "loaded question", when no question has been asked? That is another fine example of illogic!

  • At 7:46 PM, Blogger Kevin said…

    My apologies for the lack of punctuation.

    I wrote:
    I am suspecting that you have never studied logic? That's a loaded question if you missed it, because either way you answer, you lose.

    The first sentence was the question =]

  • At 12:46 AM, Blogger Diana Kennedy said…


    "I... interesting, I suppose you have spent years searching and researching the ancient manuscripts to see the truth therein?"

    Very exact.

  • At 2:29 PM, Blogger chefwes said…

    your lack of comprehension suggests otherwise, but oh well, it's your life. Btw, Have fun with John F Kennedy!


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